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Moderator guidelines?

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Moderator guidelines?

Post  Samuel on Thu May 02, 2013 4:16 am

I wonder if there is any guidelines for a moderator to follow?

It seems like one thing here is a little loose. There was a moderator here which judged that another member broke the rules and therefore the moderator posted a warning in the thread, available for everyone on the forum to read. And I do not find it good that a moderator posts the warning description in public. Why? Because as a moderator you should work to make the forum as nice as possible, both for old and new members. And "nice as possible" have multiple meanings as no off topic (which the warning description is), no personal attacks. Which this warning description could lead to. As the warned user might get angry and discuss it further and therefore other members gets involved with the angry discussion (a discussion that would lead to nothing, because there would mostly be angry comments with no real criticism and/or reflections).

The warning this moderator gave might be correct, but the way the moderator GAVE the warning can't be correct. First the moderator gave the warning in public. Then gave NO chance of the warned user to defend himself. Instead the moderator said "end of discussion". Giving out public warnings as a moderator isn't good, but if you do, at least give the warned user an option to defend himself also public. So everyone who reads the warning also reads the defending "speech".

Shouldn't the moderators be somewhat of a role model and make the possibilities of "fights" to be as small as possible? This moderator did several things wrong, 1; gave an public warning, 2; said "end of discussion", therefore stopping the possibilities for the warned user to defend himself. 3; was off topic in the thread. And I do not think a moderator is a good role model if he goes off topic and makes it possible that some people might begin to fight to win the discussion about if the warning was correct or not...

So I would say a good thing would be a moderator guideline. Something like "If an user breaks a rule, a moderator should contact this user through a personal message and not (no exceptions) give a description of the warning on a public place. And the warned user should also be given an option to defend himself in a personal back to the moderator which gave the warning".

Another good guideline might be "A moderator is a role model for how to behave in the forum. Therefore a moderator...
1. Shouldn't go off topic.
2. If there are any 'fights', not get into the fight, instead post a message in the thread that everybody should get calm and stop the discussion (the fight). If the moderator need to say anything to a specific user the moderator should make a personal message to the specific user and not (with no exceptions) use a public place writing what the moderator want to say."

I think these guidelines would make the forum a nicer place. There would be less chance of a angry discussion and instead of affecting everyone with the warning only the warned user is affected.

Edit - I am sorry for the grammar mistakes, I'm tired and need sleep, so I might edit this thread tomorrow if there are any horrible grammar mistakes.




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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Besamiculo on Thu May 02, 2013 4:24 am

Should a small forum like this be so strict? We're a close community, a lot of us are friends with each other. What's the harm in going a little off topic and what's the harm in speaking to each other freely? We're supposed to know each other.
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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Akos Kirsch on Thu May 02, 2013 4:29 am

True. A little offtopic is no harm actually.
It's the legacy of the old forum anyway Very Happy

Btw.... as a moderator Derek always do the best for the forum. I do felt some personal thing between you two guys but in general Derek is alright so this thing shouldn't taken so seriously in my opinion. (just saying before someone might start a flame here Very Happy)


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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Besamiculo on Thu May 02, 2013 4:39 am

Akos Kirsch wrote:True. A little offtopic is no harm actually.
It's the legacy of the old forum anyway Very Happy

Btw.... as a moderator Derek always do the best for the forum. I do felt some personal thing between you two guys but in general Derek is alright so this thing shouldn't taken so seriously in my opinion. (just saying before someone might start a flame here Very Happy)

You and I used to fight a lot, Akos, but if you told me or I told you that you overreact, I'm sure no one would warn or ban me then because it's so insignificant. I still think Derek is making a big deal out of it and abusing his privileges to warn me and what's worse is that everyone thinks he's doing a good job by warning me.
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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Panagiotis on Thu May 02, 2013 4:42 am

As Tsouvli pointed out, we are a small forum, and most of us know each other (either in person or from here), because we are many years members. And of course we have developed a certain way of speaking to each other. I find no reason why so strict rules should exist.

I don't think that Tsouvli needs a role-model, or the new members (which we don't have) need one too. On this point, though, I should say that Derek has been a role-model for a lot of people in here. He has been doing his job as a moderator perfectly, and he has helped in the forum development a lot. He has also taken part in many project, and he has created as much. Also his opinion and sight on many problems is invaluable!

He has always been very careful and kind when expressing his opinion on a matter. I think that the way he wrote know, shows some kind of irritation.

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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Akos Kirsch on Thu May 02, 2013 4:57 am

Besamiculo wrote:
Akos Kirsch wrote:True. A little offtopic is no harm actually.
It's the legacy of the old forum anyway Very Happy

Btw.... as a moderator Derek always do the best for the forum. I do felt some personal thing between you two guys but in general Derek is alright so this thing shouldn't taken so seriously in my opinion. (just saying before someone might start a flame here Very Happy)

You and I used to fight a lot, Akos, but if you told me or I told you that you overreact, I'm sure no one would warn or ban me then because it's so insignificant. I still think Derek is making a big deal out of it and abusing his privileges to warn me and what's worse is that everyone thinks he's doing a good job by warning me.

okay I do agree he might overreacted a bit but that's why I said maybe we are dealing with a misunderstanding here.
I'm not saying he did a good job by warning you. I meant it in general. You two should talk about the problems in pm then. smile

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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Chris on Thu May 02, 2013 5:00 am

I see that moderators here are well-behaved and recognize how to act to a member. From Besamiculo 's side i think that thre is an exaggeration in the whole topic , as long as Derek wanted to stop the discussion.
@Swedish: i believe that this kind of guidence you suggest, moderators have been taught it long time before we enter the forum. So? Let's not do things more serious and irritating. Whoever has a personal fight with someone else lets solve it via PM.
warnings which refer to forums topics must be in public view. All above were my own aspect ;)

P.S let's listen for a while : "Psahno Tin Alitheia" such positive and happy song!
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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Samuel on Thu May 02, 2013 5:02 am

I do not really have an opinion if some off topic talk should be allowed or not. But the problem about the off topic in these specific causes is that it seems like the moderator is allowed to go off topic, but not the others.

I find a warning description off topic, and also a defend "speech" is off topic. But after the moderator had written this warning description he also said "end of discussion". If a warning description is allowed in a thread a defending "speech" should also be allowed, else it is incredible unfair.

But of course, if both these off topic is allowed, there might be chances of more off topic then expected. To solve this these guidelines should come in. So that a moderator sends the warning in a PM and not in the thread, which might cause a angry discussion.

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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Chris on Thu May 02, 2013 5:04 am

Also, we must be grateful to moderators and admins who are good with most of us here so many times and dont adopt the "Hitler" manners as HPC administration does! big grin
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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Derek on Thu May 02, 2013 8:05 am

@Samuel: I sense that you just grabbed this opportunity to preach about your own sterile view of how a forum should function. Yes I do agree that there should be a few clear guidelines that we should all follow as much as we can (that includes moderators) but no need to make such a big fuss out of something that is not deserving of all this attention. Have you noticed any forum moderators handing out warnings here and there whenever given the opportunity to or do you have an impression that all of us are gas fueled robots? Please lighten up for God's sake, even I or Tsouvli didn't take this incident as seriously as you did although I was very upset with Tsouvli's remarks a few hours ago. Btw your lack of any appreciation of my moderating value in your post is what bugs me the most. A tactful and appreciative member with a desire to criticize would usually acknowledge some virtues of the moderator he/she was about to criticize and then move on to the criticism bit. However your post shows no appreciation whatsoever, not only to me but to the entire moderation team. I wouldn't be surprised by this cold-heartedness coming from a stranger to this forum but you aren't one so I'm a bit speechless and don't know what to think of it right now. I guess your criticism is accepted and if other members of the moderation team agree with it we'll discuss about the possibility of coming up with a few clear guidelines. But your lack of appreciation, understanding and tact is too noticable and disappointing and I'll never be able to digest it unless you start expressing your point of view in a more humane manner.

Panagiotis wrote:On this point, though, I should say that Derek has been a role-model for a lot of people in here. He has been doing his job as a moderator perfectly, and he has helped in the forum development a lot. He has also taken part in many project, and he has created as much. Also his opinion and sight on many problems is invaluable!
He has always been very careful and kind when expressing his opinion on a matter. I think that the way he wrote know, shows some kind of irritation.

Chris K wrote:I see that moderators here are well-behaved and recognize how to act to a member. From Besamiculo 's side i think that thre is an exaggeration in the whole topic , as long as Derek wanted to stop the discussion.
@Swedish: i believe that this kind of guidence you suggest, moderators have been taught it long time before we enter the forum. So? Let's not do things more serious and irritating. Whoever has a personal fight with someone else lets solve it via PM.
warnings which refer to forums topics must be in public view. All above were my own aspect ;)

Chris K wrote:Also, we must be grateful to moderators and admins who are good with most of us here so many times and dont adopt the "Hitler" manners as HPC administration does! big grin

Akos Kirsch wrote:
Btw.... as a moderator Derek always do the best for the forum.

This is the type of recognition that makes my efforts worthwhile in the end of the day! Thanks guys! Keep Paparizouing!
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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  TinaCZ on Thu May 02, 2013 5:31 pm

I think the mods use their common sense to deal with everything the best way they can. And I don't think any guidlines are necessary. I have faith in them and trust them.

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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Labros! on Thu May 02, 2013 5:56 pm

Chris K wrote:Also, we must be grateful to moderators and admins who are good with most of us here so many times and dont adopt the "Hitler" manners as HPC administration does! big grin
What? help me! First of all, that's not true at all. Apart from that, the fights between PF and HPC have stopped lately and we don't want to fight again so please be careful with what you say about them here Wink
As far as Samuel's suggestion is concerned, I don't think we need such ''rules'' for the mods.

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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Samuel on Fri May 03, 2013 8:46 pm

Derek wrote:@Samuel: I sense that you just grabbed this opportunity to preach about your own sterile view of how a forum should function. Yes I do agree that there should be a few clear guidelines that we should all follow as much as we can (that includes moderators) but no need to make such a big fuss out of something that is not deserving of all this attention. Have you noticed any forum moderators handing out warnings here and there whenever given the opportunity to or do you have an impression that all of us are gas fueled robots? Please lighten up for God's sake, even I or Tsouvli didn't take this incident as seriously as you did although I was very upset with Tsouvli's remarks a few hours ago. Btw your lack of any appreciation of my moderating value in your post is what bugs me the most. A tactful and appreciative member with a desire to criticize would usually acknowledge some virtues of the moderator he/she was about to criticize and then move on to the criticism bit. However your post shows no appreciation whatsoever, not only to me but to the entire moderation team. I wouldn't be surprised by this cold-heartedness coming from a stranger to this forum but you aren't one so I'm a bit speechless and don't know what to think of it right now. I guess your criticism is accepted and if other members of the moderation team agree with it we'll discuss about the possibility of coming up with a few clear guidelines. But your lack of appreciation, understanding and tact is too noticable and disappointing and I'll never be able to digest it unless you start expressing your point of view in a more humane manner.
I have some complaints and therefore I write them down here and post them. I might not have written down any things I appreciate but there's a reason for that, if I would begin to write down things I appreciate I would go off topic and my criticism would be more or less unseen. I want that the focus is on the things I criticize and nothing else. That isn't because I am cold-hearted (if I am that...) it is because I always want good forums to get better and better and this thread is focused on one points I think can be better.

If I have any appreciation to give, I will give it later on in a thread were I won't go off topic because I do.

If I would suddenly begin to spam all parts of this forum and begin to give out personal attacks to everyone. Would you then write me a PM first saying a few things that you appreciate of me and then say why I get a warning, or would you just go onto the warning? If you would go with the first option I wouldn't probably take the warning as serious as I should. So many times I think it is better to just write down the criticisms and leave the other parts away.

I want you to know that I think giving out public warnings is mostly a bad thing to do and if some people is angry, that public warning might be a start of a fight. That's an easy way to say what my criticism is about. What is so cold-hearted about my own opinion and thoughts about public warnings? And if you still think I am cold-hearted you don't want to work as a moderator on a bigger forum. Big forum moderators will get a big amount of complaints everyday.


TinaCZ wrote:I think the mods use their common sense to deal with everything the best way they can. And I don't think any guidlines are necessary. I have faith in them and trust them.
We're all human and we do mistakes. But as a moderator it is good to have a few guidelines (written or unwritten) to follow to make the mistakes less usual. I'm not saying there should be a ton of guidelines, that might just make it worse. But a few guidelines telling what and what not to do can be a good thing. The same with the forum rules, there shouldn't be too many but a few is a positive thing and probably needed.

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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  TinaCZ on Sun May 05, 2013 6:14 pm

Well, thank you for your suggestions. We will take them into considerations and will discuss them internally.

As for the forum rules, we set up only the most important rules to make the forum relatively tidy and organized.

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Re: Moderator guidelines?

Post  Derek on Fri May 10, 2013 4:47 am

Svenskjäveln wrote:
I have some complaints and therefore I write them down here and post them. I might not have written down any things I appreciate but there's a reason for that, if I would begin to write down things I appreciate I would go off topic and my criticism would be more or less unseen. I want that the focus is on the things I criticize and nothing else. That isn't because I am cold-hearted (if I am that...) it is because I always want good forums to get better and better and this thread is focused on one points I think can be better.

If I have any appreciation to give, I will give it later on in a thread were I won't go off topic because I do.

If I would suddenly begin to spam all parts of this forum and begin to give out personal attacks to everyone. Would you then write me a PM first saying a few things that you appreciate of me and then say why I get a warning, or would you just go onto the warning? If you would go with the first option I wouldn't probably take the warning as serious as I should. So many times I think it is better to just write down the criticisms and leave the other parts away.

I want you to know that I think giving out public warnings is mostly a bad thing to do and if some people is angry, that public warning might be a start of a fight. That's an easy way to say what my criticism is about. What is so cold-hearted about my own opinion and thoughts about public warnings? And if you still think I am cold-hearted you don't want to work as a moderator on a bigger forum. Big forum moderators will get a big amount of complaints everyday.

Sorry but I can't buy your "excuse" for writing about someone in this manner. I didn't want to respond to your post earlier when my answer could have been under the influence of my anger and disappointment in you but I'll do it now since everything is much clearer.

First of all even if you wanted to keep your post spam-free and "to the point" don't forget there is real people behind those member usernames and moderators who invest their time into moderating the forum, keeping it tidy for you to enjoy your stay whenever you are around, cleaning after "your" spam and so on, so even if not a long text of great appreciation for me and the moderation team is required with your criticism, a word or 2 would be appreciated if you wanted to be seen like a kind and appreciative member with good manners and tact. If you don't care about that, just move on and accept being called "cold-hearted" and "inhumane" and stop using lame excuses such as "you don't want to work as a moderator on a bigger forum. Big forum moderators will get a big amount of complaints everyday" or " if I would begin to write down things I appreciate I would go off topic and my criticism would be more or less unseen".
a) No one would ignore your criticism if you wrote a nice word about me instead of picturing me like the most irrensponsible moderator and b) when it comes to how bigger forums work, don't forget that a lot of newly-registered members send a lot of complaints to moderators there because all they want is to get what they want the soonest they can and usually not because they have real complaints (e.g. members complaining about no access to certain sections despite minimum to no contribution - we've been facing such incidents here throughout the years).

If I would suddenly begin to spam all parts of this forum and begin to give out personal attacks to everyone. Would you then write me a PM first saying a few things that you appreciate of me and then say why I get a warning, or would you just go onto the warning? If you would go with the first option I wouldn't probably take the warning as serious as I should. So many times I think it is better to just write down the criticisms and leave the other parts away.

Yes, I would probably be surprised to notice such activity from a member with important contribution to our forum and I would question what is wrong and what is the motive of this forum behavior via PM while making sure to move all these "irregular posts" to a section where they can't be seen by other members. I would certainly not talk to you, the same way I would talk to someone who displays this irregular forum behavior and has not contributed at all or to a minimal degree only. Would you talk to the person who just bumped into your car because he/she was drunk and your friend who accidentally damaged your phone the same way?

What is so cold-hearted about my own opinion and thoughts about public warnings?

Your opinion about public warnings is not cold-hearted, what is cold-hearted is the manner in which you write to members you are no stranger to, at least in this environment. Just to clarify this, I'm no longer mad at you because I recognize your value for our forum and I appreciate what you've done for it (even on a personal level) but what I want you to know is that we're a small community of people and we shouldn't treat each other as machines that are programmed to work in a specific way so a bit more kindness and less robotic language will be appreciated in the future. Also emoticons are there for a reason. Wink
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